Copywriters Podcast

Think about these two things:First, learning to write copy, andSecond, then actually writing it.Wouldn’t it be nice if those two things, learning to write copy and then doing it, were free of confusion, anxiety, and terror?That was the burning question that started me on the path of mentoring copywriters. I wanted to make it happen. Because early on, I had such a rough time learning myself.Learning copywriting was so different from anything I had ever done that it seemed it didn’t matter what I had done before. Anyway, after all this time I’ve gotten pretty good at teaching other people to write copy. And that was after having hit a fair number of home runs with copy I had written myself.I haven’t eliminated confusion, anxiety and terror altogether, but I’ve reduced them by A LOT.And then, along came AI. Problems anew.AI can make things better or worse, depending on what you know and what you know how to do.What do you need to understand that is largely misunderstood out there (which is why we have so many in

Today we have the fourth and final installment of our hit Old Masters Series segment, Copywriting 101. We’ll be talking about the last seven fundamentals.And if that little voice in your head is asking, “What the heck are we doing reviewing fundamentals?!”, let me remind you of what basketball legend Michael Jordan said: “Get the fundamentals down and the level of everything you do will rise.”It’s so easy to get caught up in the latest new new thing. But a dedication to fundamentals is what helps you get what you really want.So that’s what we’ll cover today.

Our returning champion Mike Pavlish has written dozens of VSLs that have brought in $10 million or more. In fact, over the last 30 years, Mike’s copy has brought in over $810 million in sales. And his work is still bringing in the big bucks today.How good is Mike? On his website he’s got testimonials from legends like Gary Bencivenga and Bob Bly. But this one from an eye doctor named David Tavel, who has 24 clinics across Indiana, really stood out to me:“Your copywriting pulled two to one compared to a big New York ad agency. I have been in business for 45 years and this is the best response ever. The results speak for themselves.”Recently, Mike sent out an email that started out this way:I've been in direct response for over 30 years.I've written over $810 million in sales.I've seen a lot of trends come and go.But what's happening right now is different.The speed of change is like nothing I've everseen.Here are the trends I think every directmarketer needs to watch.I asked Mike to come ba

We’re going through massive and disruptive upheavals all over the place, and of course copywriting is no exception.I’m seeing the need for a complete mindset shift to survive, thrive and even dominate in copywriting.It’s curious to me that the mindset shift is a return to the garden. I know that phrase means a lot of things, depending upon your background.What I mean by a return to the garden is, going back to basics. From the first glimmers of online marketing to the original Facebook analytics and now the unstoppable march forward of AI… ironically, all the non-human things those advances caused are being stripped away from the copy that gets results.What stands out is genuine human messaging, just like in a store or at a bar or at a Starbacks, one person talking to another. These days, more than anything else, that’s what works.With everything that’s happened, we need to make a conscious shift in mindset to get back to the garden and write the kind of copy that was working before all this technological int

As we return to our hit Old Masters Series segment, Copywriting 101, I’d like to let you know that the first edition of John Caples’s book Tested Advertising Methods was published in 1932–that’s 94 years ago!Caples updated the book more than once over the decades–the last edition was published in 1998.But the interesting thing is, over that 60 plus year span, the fundamentals remained the same. And they haven’t changed in the last 30 years, either.Just in the same way that storytellers still refer to Aristotle and scientists and engineers still depend on Newton’s three laws of motion, copywriters can reliably depend on the fundamentals Caples laid out. We are going to explore six more of them today.And if a little voice in your head is asking, “What the heck are we doing reviewing fundamentals?!”, let me remind you of what basketball legend Michael Jordan said: “Get the fundamentals down and the level of everything you do will rise.”RESOURCETested Advertising Methods, 5th Edition, by John Capleshttps://www.am

The future for copywriters and AI is pretty clear:AI will not replace copywriters.But… copywriters who know how to use AI will replace those who don’t.Sounds simple enough.However, once you get into it, you realize using AI to create copy that converts sounds easier than it is.And the question boils down to: How do you do it?I’ve been wrestling with that question for a couple years now, and I’ve found the answer.If you already know how to write copy without AI, there’s still some work involved to write copy with AI… but it’s a lot easier.If you really don’t know how to write copy, there are some things you need to learn… or help you need to get… in order to create copy that works using AI.Either way, there’s a path for you to be one of the copywriters of the future… one who knows how to use AI to write copy.That’s what we’ll talk about today.Finally, the best way to find out about the upcoming workshop where I’ll be teaching the five skills and how to get a superior competitive position is to make sure you’re

Once again we’re back to our Copywriting 101 segments in the Old Masters Series, picking up where we left off a couple weeks ago.This is about copywriting fundamentals. It never hurts to review them, and if you weren’t grounded in fundamentals to begin with, it’s never too late to learn what they are.One of the best sources of an expert list of the fundamentals is John Caples, in his book Tested Advertising Methods. There was nothing fancy or intellectual about what Caples said or did, and yet he was one of the greatest direct response copywriters of all time.So our Old Masters Series turns to the late John Caples for source material. Based on his book, we’ve put together a list of fundamentals that everyone should remember and practice. It’s easy to forget or get distracted by the latest shiny object, but ultimately, to win, you alwayshave to go back to the fundamentals.That’s what we’re going to do today.–Tested Advertising Methods, 5th Editionhttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0130957011

Let’s talk about something small.Very small.Small enough that most copywriters are forced tooverlook it, most of the time.Because we’ve all been trained to think in termsof big persuasive assets.The sales letter… the long-form VSL… the casestudy… the big story that carries the whole argument.And those still matter.But that’s not what most of us are writing mostof the time.Most of the time, we’re writing in tight spaces.Openings… transitions… subject lines… leads….things like that.Now, we think about those things, for sure. Weworry about those things. We obsess over those things.But rarely do we think thatwe have room to tell a whole story in those cramped, constrained spaces.Well, recently I’ve been workshopping a new bookcalled Microstories.It’s the next step of a new kind of story aftermy book The Persuasion Story Code.Microstories is a book about compressed persuasion.See, I kept noticing — in my own work and in thework of other copywriters — what I noticed was that sometimes, the smallestnarrative fragmen

The big secret of success, whether it’s in investing… in professional sports… or in copywriting, is one in the same: A focus on, and a mastery of, the fundamentals.The legendary basketball player Michael Jordan put it this way: “Get the fundamentals down and the level of everything you do will rise.”We’ve never done a show that just focused on copywriting fundamentals, so what better time than now?And one of the best sources of an expert list of the fundamentals is John Caples, in his book Tested Advertising Methods. There was nothing fancy or intellectual about what Caples said or did, and yet he was one of the greatest direct response copywriters of all time.So our Old Masters Series turns to the late John Caples for source material. Based on his book, we’ve put together a list of fundamentals that everyone should remember and practice. It’s easy to forget or get distracted by the latest shiny object, but ultimately, to win, you always have to go back to the fundamentals.That’s what we’re going to do today.

Our returning champion is Clive Cable, who was here a few weeks agotalking about his new book Neurocopy.As Nathan and I got to know Clive a little better, we found out he hasbeen doing a LOT with AI and copywriting that frankly we haven’t seen anyoneelse do.For example, he has a story-lede generator that comes up with a big idea for asales letter or VSL, and then writes a unique story lede to start the piece.Clive’s created a bot that writes like Gene Schwartz–but he only uses itto write the FIRST PART of a piece of copy. He has another bot that writesprobably the best kind of close he’s ever seen.And he’s taken research to a whole new level using AI.Beyond that, he’s taken the late Chris Marlowe’s brilliant 21 questionprocess for creating copy briefs, and automated it using AI.And there’s even more.Clive is putting together an agency to help copywriters and companies,using his suite of AI tools, to do one of four things:1. Beat a control2. Do in-depth research3. Figure out why something’s not working, and4.

Dante Aligheri was a copywriter kind of guy. Rather than write in the stuffy, formal Latin which is what everyone else was writing in the 14th century, he wrote in the home boy people’s language of Tuscan.Dante’s masterwork was The Divine Comedy, and his last line was“L'amor che move il sole e l'altre stelle”Translated into English, he’s talking about Love–the kind of love that moves the sun and the other stars.Thus proving that even in medieval Italy, LOVE was recognized as the most powerful motivating force in the Universe.Yet, how do we tap into that in our copy and take advantage of this irresistible force.Today’s extremely special guest, Nathan, is here to tell you. Of course you already know Nathan extremely well as the co-host and producer of Copywriters Podcast.But today he’s going to step out of the virtual control room to tell you how to make your prospects fall in love and obsess over your offer, which is something you really need to know, once you think about it.Nathan's websitehttps:/

It’s a full-blown crisis. As if writing copy wasn’t hard enough, there’s a new demand falling on the plates of copywriters more and more.And while maybe it’s not fair, it IS real. And it’s important that you know about it, and know what to do about it.Good news. We’ve got just the person to explain what it is and how to come out ahead, looking like a million bucks and being a hero, whether you wear a cape or not.The crisis is one of Design. These days, just as more and more is being expected of copywriters on the word and strategy side, so is more being expected on the Design side.That doesn’t mean you have to be a full-fledged designer to get copy jobs. You don’t.But you do need to know your way around what a well designed ad or web page looks like.And there are details you need to understand and offer ideas about.And our very special guest today and returning champion, Lori Haller of Designing Response, is here to sort it out and straighten it all out for you.Lori works side by side with many of the greates

These days people talk about neurochemicals a lot. Chemicals like dopamine, and cortisol, and the love chemical, oxytocin.I’ve always wondered how these chemicals are affected by copy, and how much it matters.So imagine my surprise when I discovered what our very special guest was doing! His name is Clive Cable, and he’s not only written a book about this, he has a complete system to evaluate copy based on the neurochemistry the copy will cause, and the buying behavior that chemistry will lead to.The book is called Neurocopy, and it’s the first systematic work I’ve ever seen that shows how copy stimulates certain chemicals, and how those chemicals make people want to buy.Clive is a trailblazer with his pioneering work. But I want to make it clear that he’s not some ivory tower guy sitting in a white coat in a lab measuring blood levels of dopamine and endorphins with a clinical chemistry analyzer.No, Clive’s one of us. He got started as a door-to-door salesman, offering home improvement products and services

We’re really at a crisis point for a lot of marketers.It’s not just that ads keep getting more expensive.It’s that it just gets harder and harder to get and keep prospects’ attention.And with everything being engineered and optimized by AI and CRO, stuff ends up looking more and more the same. And that only works against you.You know you need to stand out–but how?Well, the best way to get and keep attention is, and always has been, a story.But how long is a story?I mean, a Hero’s Journey story can take hours.And even the type of compact tales I introduced in my book The Persuasion Story Code can take two to three minutes. That’s not very long, but at a time of shrinking attention spans, it’s still too long.Now, you can try using outrageous hooks. But in addition to shrinking attention spans, you’re also fighting against rising levels of skepticism and outright distrust.If you say something that gets attention but just isn’t believable, you’re still sunk.So, what would be ideal to solve this problem?It would b

Today’s show is for every talented copywriter stuck in the feast-or-famine cycle of business and would much rather get paid well, to reflect the enormous value their copy is bringing to their clients.We have a very special returning champion on the show today, Dr. Harlan Kilstein. He has just released a book called Value-Based Copywriting. Originally presented in a $997 seminar, this material has changed the lives and of course careers of some very fortunate copywriters.This book solves the problem faced by thousands of copywriters–not getting paid for what their work is worth.Harlan is a renowned entrepreneur and copywriting expert known for his innovative approaches in marketing, mindset, and personal development.With decades of experience at the intersection of psychology, persuasion, and business strategy, Harlan has built a reputation for helping individuals and companies unlock explosive growth through compelling communication and breakthrough thinking.He’s also a former educator with a doctorate in edu

Life must have been at least a little frustrating for our Old Master on today’s show. His name was Walter Weir. He was a very active and successful copywriter and advertising professor, but he must have constantly run into resistance along the way, since so many of his ideas were ahead of their time. Walter Weir was born in 1909 and he died in 1996. He published a couple of books which are nearly impossible to find today. Maybe the publisher, my old employer McGraw-Hill, took them out of print quickly because the ideas were so far ahead of their time that they didn’t sell very well. I don’t know. What I do know is I was fascinated by his ideas. Here are 5 takeaways from an exploration of Weir’s writings and thinking, from today’s show: 1. Write copy that you truly believe, because people can feel it when you don’t. When you don’t believe it, your reader won’t either. And if your reader doesn’t believe it, they won’t buy. 2. Use words that people can FEEL as well as merely understand. Forget about cl

If you’re involved in copywriting in any way, you know right now we’re at an inflection point. Things have been changing fast over the last two years, and show no signs of slowing down. People who hire copywriters tell me it’s harder than ever to find a good one… yet people who write copy for a living, many of them, tell me it’s really hard to find good-paying work. There’s clearly a disconnect. AI has a lot to do with it. The very definition of what a copywriter is, and what a copywriter does, seems very much in flux. Today I want to suggest five copywriting goals for 2026. These are based on how I was able to help my own mentoring clients solve problems and develop their marketability over the past 12 months. I work with established copywriters and business owners who use direct response, and what I helped them with on a very personal, customized basis would be a good idea for most everyone who listens to this podcast. Links: Copywriting Mentoring: https://garfinkelcoaching.com Persuasive storyte

It takes a lot of courage and a lot of confidence to do what our special guest today has done… and that’s fire all his clients and start an email-based business. But Alin Dragu did just that, and he’s here to tell us about it. He’s the best-selling author of the book Meaningful Marketing, he spent 5 years as direct of marketing at one of the fastest growing churches in the US, and 3 years as the VP of growth at a Christian marketing agency. Alin is definitely a copywriter’s copywriter. He’s obsessed with reading novels and old fiction letters. And he admits he’s secretly obsessed with luxury watches, something Nathan’s a collector of as well. Finally, in case you end up taking Alin to dinner, which probably wouldn’t be a bad idea, you should know he says he’s never refused a steak, ever in his life. Now, here’s what we asked him: 1. So Alin, could you give us a quick tour of what you do? 2. I’m very interested in your S-L-O framework that you use to write all your emails. Could you walk us through th

Last fall, our returning champion Glenn Fisher and his business partner Nick O’Connor teamed up with mega financial publisher Marketwise for a bold experiment: Offer FREE training in financial copywriting to 12 people who competed for the spots. There were 500 people applied. Of the 12 who were selected, Glenn says, four were offered jobs… and two are being mentored by financial copywriting legend Mike Palmer. You know, in many stupid businesses, when something works, the business immediately stops doing it and decides to try something else. Lucky for you, Marketwise is anything but a stupid business. They know a good thing when they see it. So they decided to keep working with Glenn and Nick and run more programs through 2026. And Glenn’s back on the show to tell us what they learned and what’s next… and how you might be one of the lucky 12 in a future cohort! Links: Financial Copy U: https://www.financialcopyu.com/ The Fix, Glenn’s and Nick’s other program: https://thefixcopywriting.com/ Downlo

So a lot of people are building their brand by pouring tons of money into traffic… A/B testing… tracking every click… but deep down, you feel that something’s not landing. It’s almost like you wonder if you’re coming across as desperate, rather than confident. Maybe it’s time to take a look at a cherished assumption in online marketing: Namely, that more information and more volume equals more authority. Not really, says our own Nathan Fraser. He’s given me an advance peek at his new book, The Signal. I was so excited by the refreshing ideas he has in there that I wanted him to talk about it on today’s show… and he agreed. Look. Nathan says you should stop begging the algorithm and start commanding attention. And he has some proven ideas on how to do that. Which he’ll share with us today. Here are the questions I asked him: 1. In your book, you say, “Marketing that begs for attention becomes noise. Marketing grounded in conviction becomes signal.” What do you mean by this, and how can someone make