With Friends Like These

Welcome to our first themed season, “With Friends Like These: Converts.” We’ve always been interested in why and how people change their minds about what they believe — mostly because it just doesn’t happen that often. Once we we make a choice about who we are or what we want to do, we start ignoring the evidence that might prove us wrong: that’s what “confirmation bias” is. Social psychologist Carol Tavris joins us to discuss the phenomenon, offer examples of it, and delve into the mystery of why some people seem capable of resisting the habit of rationalization and some people don’t. Further reading and sources: “Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me),” by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson Ezra Klein discusses confirmation bias and how the self-reinforcing effect of polarization this previous episode about his book, “Why We’re Polarized.” We discussed the ways we push each other into further and further away once we decide what we believe in this episode with Lilliana Mason, “When Ideology Is Identity”, about her

This week friend of the pod Alice Wong (@SFDirewolf) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to talk about what it means to be a part of the disabled community during a pandemic. Spoiler: the world seems to get a little too cavalier about whether or not you deserve to live anymore. They talk about the grassroots activism being done within the community, and what able bodied folks can do to listen and be better. Remember, we are staying inside and quarantining for the good of everyone, not just those we deem worthy of surviving capitalism. Learn more about Alice’s work with the Disability Visibility Project here. Read more about the fight for Medicaid here. Thanks to our sponsors! With their powerful matching technology, ZipRecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right skills and experience for your job — and actively invites them to apply. To try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE, go to ZipRecruiter.com/friends!  Le Tote is the fashion RENTAL service where you can choose the clothes and accessories y

Want to listen to anything NOT about COVID-19? We got the episode for you! Eduardo Porter (@portereduardo) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to talk about a much lighter subject: the history of racism in class divides and how it still affects us today. They talk about the hopes we’ve had in the past for a racially diverse working class coalition and how it’s been destroyed time and time again by exclusive language. Afterwards, they talk about how our social welfare will probably not cut it for everyone over the coming weeks as we all lose our jobs to this virus. Finally, they talk about what we can do to stay positive when tackling seemingly unsolvable issues.  Learn more about Eduardo’s book, American Poison. Looking for a way to help out during this time from your isolation? Donate to the Coronavirus Relief Fund Here. Thanks to our sponsors! Whether your mission is to live a more sustainable life and reduce your fashion footprint, or cut down your shopping bills, the fashion rental service Le Tote can

This week Dan Drezner joins Ana Marie Cox to talk about the likelihood of Trump handling COVID-19 responsibly (you guessed it, not well). Dan argues in his book, Toddler in Chief, that not only is Trump a toddler, power in American politics has shifted to the executive, making this more dangerous than ever. They discuss the treacherous tales of badger-related attacks on staffers in the White House to the genuine concerns of friends and family members about Trump’s behavior. Finally, Dan gives us some reasons not to freak out: we still have some power.  Thanks to our sponsors!  Is there something that interferes with your happiness or is preventing you from achieving your goals? BetterHelp online counseling is there for you. Get 10% off your first month with discount code FRIENDS. Go to BetterHelp.com/FRIENDS Rothy’s shoes are incredibly comfortable with zero break-in period thanks to their seamlessly knit design. With many chic styles to choose from, Rothy's shoes are the perfect pair for any adventure. Chec

CW: Sexual assault and violence against women. If you, or someone you know, has experienced sexual violence, please call the RAINN hotline: 800.656.HOPE (4673). It’s never too late to get help.  It’s no secret that most women live in fear of violence. Nearly every week, there’s a news story showcasing the most gruesome examples of it, like the woman who was killed for jogging in Queens, or the countless number of ‘Rejection Murders’ men commit after a woman says “no.”  This week, author of Men Explain Things to Me, Rebecca Solnit, joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to discuss her new memoir: Recollections of My Nonexistence. Together, they dream of a world where we don’t have to sit our daughters down and give them a never ending list of safety tips. They talk about what it’s like to grow up in our patriarchal culture, where giving those warnings seems more effective than stopping men from committing acts of violence. Finally, Rebecca reminds us that as much as violent and powerful men want to stop our voic

This week we'll answer our number one question: why are we so polarized? Ezra Klein (@ezraklein) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to answer it. His new book is called, Why We’re Polarized, and they talk about how a lot of divisiveness stems from racism and problems beyond “political disagreements.” Finally they ask, can we bring unconditional love into politics, and more importantly, should we? Join us for another epistemologically exciting episode of With Friends Like These! Thanks to our sponsors! Is there something that interferes with your happiness or is preventing you from achieving your goals? BetterHelp online counseling is there for you. Best of all, it’s a truly affordable option. Get 10% off your first month with discount code FRIENDS when you go to BetterHelp.com/FRIENDS. With their powerful matching technology, ZipRecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job. Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE, when you go to ZipRecruiter.com/friends.

Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) sits down with Lincoln Group founder Rick Wilson (@TheRickWilson) to discuss what the soft Republican stance is on everything happening around us right now. Will Trump stop an election from happening? As Rick agrees: Yikes all around.  Thanks to our sponsors! Postage rates have gone up AGAIN. Thankfully, Stamps.com eases the pain with big discounts off Post Office retail rates. Go to Stamps.com, click on the Microphone at the TOP of the homepage and type in FRIENDS and get a special offer that includes a 4-week trial PLUS free postage AND a digital scale without any long-term commitment.  ThirdLove believes that every woman deserves to feel comfortable and confident every day. With the right kind of support, they help her do this. Go to THIRDLOVE.com/FRIENDS now to find your perfect-fitting bra and get 15% off your first purchase!  Here at With Friends Like These, we love Grove Collaborative, the online marketplace that delivers all-natural home, beauty, and personal care prod

Want to learn some spicy new tricks just in time for Valentine’s Day? This week Kate Murphy joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to talk about this season’s hottest tip: mindfully listening to those around you. Kate Murphy, author of You’re Not Listening, talks about why listening is so important, and how it can save your life in the long term. Afterward, they discuss being comfortable with silence and working through disagreements. Thanks to our sponsors! quip, makers of the quip electric toothbrush wants you to know the one single discovery that matters most for your dental care. It is simply this, that if you have good habits, you are good. Join over THREE MILLION healthy mouths and get quip today, starting at TWENTY FIVE DOLLARS. And if you go to getquip.com/FRIENDS, RIGHT NOW, you’ll get your first refill FREE. Rothy’s has quickly grown to a most-loved, gotta-have-them brand. It’s no surprise they have over 1,000 nearly perfect reviews. They’re stylish, sustainable, comfortable, washable—really, all in

In Germany, studying the Holocaust — and the part everyday Germans played in it — is part of the school curriculum. There are memorials to the Jewish lives lost throughout the country, but they do not memorialize Nazis who died. Contrast this with the American South.  This week Susan Neiman, author of the book, Learning From the Germans, joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to explain what we can learn from the Germans about regret and repentance. They talk about the inspiration for writing the book, how a museum exhibit helped change German opinion, and why language matters when we talk about monuments on an international scale. These are not normal times and we all have the ability to make change. What should our next steps be? Want to help fight voter suppression? Click here to learn about Fair Fight. Find out more about Susan Neiman’s book here. Thanks to our sponsors: Ritual left out mystery additives, synthetic fillers, and shady extras that can be found in some traditional multivitamins. Their delaye

This week Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) is joined by Lori Gottlieb (@lorigottlieb1), author of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone. They talk about the route Lori took to become a therapist, how it's informed her practice and the common misconceptions of mental health. They'll also unpack why many are surprised that therapists have their own therapists! Join us for a mindful discussion on the mind, and don’t forget to call your therapist. (Turns out, like the rest of us, they don’t love being ghosted.) Thanks to our sponsors! Grove Collaborative is the online marketplace that delivers all-natural home, beauty, and personal care products directly to your door. Grove’s sustainable swap set is the best and easiest way to get started reducing plastics waste in your home. Go to Grove.co/FRIENDS and you’ll get the FREE FIVE PIECE set from Grove so you can easily swap out plastics. Plus, you’ll get free shipping AND a free 60-day VIP trial! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week Rick Wilson (@TheRickWilson) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to talk about impeachment and our favorite Cover(up) girl Mitch McConnell. They begin by contrasting their political differences, and eventually get to where they agree, all through the lens of abortion. Afterwards, they cover our current political moment, despair, and panic regarding the impeachment process. Put in your earbuds, get under a blanket, and make a cup of tea: trust us, you’re gonna need it for this one. Thanks to our sponsors! ThirdLove Does Bras Differently: They believe that every woman deserves to feel comfortable and confident every day. With the right kind of support, they help her do this. Go to THIRDLOVE.com/FRIENDS now to find your perfect-fitting bra and get 15% off your first purchase!  Quip’s electric brush has sensitive sonic vibrations with a built-in timer and thirty second pulses to guide a full and even clean. The quip floss dispenser comes with pre-marked string to help you use just enough. If you go to

CW: Sexual Assault If you or a loved one is experiencing sexual violence, please reach out to the national sexual assault hotline. You are not alone. Please call 1-800-656-4673. This week With Friends Like These goes live and catches some feelings about Peggy Orenstein’s (@peggyorenstein) new book Boys and Sex. Host Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) and Peggy cover why we need to understand boys to try and help them, hookups/hookup culture, and what we can do to make our reality a little less terrifying. Take off your emotional condom, put in your earbuds, and join us for a meaningful discussion on the sexual landscape of college-aged men.  Thanks to our sponsors! HelloFresh cuts out stressful meal planning and prepping, so you can enjoy cooking and get dinner on the table in just about 30 minutes – or even 20 minutes with their quick recipe options! Go to HelloFresh.com/withfriends10 and use code withfriends10 during HelloFresh’s New Year’s sale for 10 free meals including free shipping.   Whether you’re ver

Anne Helen Petersen (@annehelen) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) this week to talk about exactly what you fear when you return to work or school after the holidays: burnout. They discuss what burnout is doing to Millenials (and younger generations) and why the root of the problem is, you guessed it, capitalism. Finally, they examine what one church has done to combat burnout at its economic root, and how their own relationship to religion has healed their burnout. Thanks to our sponsors! Grove’s sustainable swap set is the best and easiest way to get started reducing plastics waste in your home - it has Bamboo straws, Reusable and washable sandwich bags, a Refillable hand soap dispenser, gel hand soap, and a walnut scrubber sponge set. Now, for a limited time when our listeners go to Grove.co/FRIENDS you’ll get the FREE FIVE PIECE set from Grove so you can easily swap out plastics. Plus, you’ll get free shipping AND a free 60-day VIP trial! Stamps.com brings all the services of the U.S. Postal Service r

We’re doing a re-run this week, from one of our favorite WFLT episodes of 2019. Back in April, journalist Eli Saslow (@elisaslow) joined Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to discuss to radicalization of older people, and how to deal with that one uncle at family gatherings who constantly brings up birtherism of whatever. One of our listeners is a NASA rocket scientist who reached out because she lost a parent to Russian troll-farm memes. There are plenty of success stories for those willing to fight back, and that there is hope yet.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week Chrissy Stroop (@C_Stroop) and Lauren O’Neal (@laureneoneal) join Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to talk about their childhood fears of hellfire and their new book, Empty the Pews: Stories of Leaving the Church. They discuss how they left their churches, why they did it, and the need for ex-believers to have a seat at the table. Afterwards, they talk about the implications of evangelical Christianity in the public sphere (and how our policies have terrifyingly reflected that). Join us this week for a conversation on what is feels like to have some crazy religious cognitive dissonance. Thanks to our sponsors! Stitch Fix is an online personal styling service that delivers your favorite clothing, shoes, and accessories, directly to you. With no subscription required, pick between automatic shipments or only getting new pieces on demand. Shipping, exchanges, and returns are always free, and Plus, the $20 styling fee is automatically applied towards anything you keep from your box. Get started today at S

This week Rick Wilson (@TheRickWilson) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to talk about how we’ve got political nuclear winter, just in time for Christmas. The Impeachment process has not gone… the best. That we can all agree on. Rick and Ana dive into why, and why you should perhaps not cut deals with a racist crook. Mr. Wilson delivers a heartfelt appeal for voter outreach. It’s not as bleak as it could have been. Thanks to our sponsor: Ritual’s Essentials have the nutrients most of us don’t get enough of from food—all in their clean, absorbable forms. No shady additives or ingredients that can do more harm to your body than good. Two easy-to-take capsules provide nine nutrients you need to support a strong foundation for your health. Better health doesn’t happen overnight, and right now Ritual is offering my listeners 10% off during your first three months! Visit ritual.com/FRIENDS to start your ritual today.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week Esme Wang (@esmewang) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to talk about living with a brain you don’t always feel like you can trust. Esme Wang is the author of the New York Times-bestselling essay collection, The Collected Schizophrenias. She writes frequently about her experiences with both mental and physical chronic illnesses and advocates for eliminating stigmas surrounding them. They talk about the difficulty of “the diagnosis,” why high-functioning is a loaded term, and what it means find faith (or even spiritual guidance in your dog).  Thanks to our sponsors! When it comes to shopping for clothes most of us are amateurs. So why not let the professionals handle it? With Stitch Fix, a stylist will do all the work for you! With no subscription required, pick between automatic shipments or only getting new pieces on demand. Shipping, exchanges, and returns are always free, and Plus, the $20 styling fee is automatically applied towards anything you keep from your box. Get started today at Stitch

This week, host of the You’re Wrong About podcast, Sarah Marshall (@Remember_Sarah) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to talk about the only American holiday spookier than Halloween, Black Friday. Ana and Sarah discuss misconceptions about the history of the holiday, and how it turned into the capitalist dystopian hell we all know and love. Afterwards, they talked about the intersection of class and the division that the holiday creates. Finally, they talked about the science of crowd control, and why we need to pressure corporations to make ethical changes. Listen this week for some Black Friday tips on shopping and dealing with borderline angry mobs; Worst comes to worst, just start singing some Celine Dion and hopefully the crowd will calm down!  Interested in articles Sarah talked about? Click here for Jdimytai Damour’s story. Click here for a story on the power of crowds. Have any questions about family and politics you want answered on the show? Email withfriendslikepod@gmail.com!  Thanks to our sp

This week Ed Schupman (manager of the Native Knowledge 360° Initiative and a citizen of the Muscogee Creek Nation of Oklahoma) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to discuss Thanksgiving and the surrounding myths. Reflecting on the tragedy that underlies Thanksgiving isn’t easy or fun but Ed has made a career of using Thanksgiving as a way into a broader discussion of Native American History. To truly process the gritty, uncomfortable story of Thanksgiving will require reinventing the American educational system. Listen to Ed unpack a perspective on both the American experience and the practice of gratitude, as he argues that we should be thinking about indigeous history year-round, and practicing gratitude year-round as well.” Resources from the National Museum of the American Indian, and Ed’s curated experience, is available at https://americanindian.si.edu/nk360/ Thanks to our sponsors! Policygenius is the easy way to shop for a life insurance plan that’s not tied to your job. In minutes, you can compare

What do Goop and Capitalism have in common? Both refuse to go away despite how much suffering they’ve caused! This week Amanda Mull (@amandamull) joins Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) to discuss these topics and more. They begin by talking about fashion, ad-based media, and the ways that we exist within these constructs. Afterwards, they talk about identity and size, fat-phobia, and what we can do to make sure all bodies feel beautiful.  CW: Self-harm and intense discussion of body image. Interested in Material World? Click here for Amanda’s most recent article. Thanks to our sponsors! This episode is sponsored by Magic Spoon, a new cereal company that’s discovered a way to recreate your favorite childhood cereals with zero sugar, 12 grams of protein, and only 3 grams of net carbs in each serving. Magic Spoon spent over a year working with the best food scientists and chefs in the world to recreate the taste and texture of classic sugary cereal, but it tastes so incredible that you'd never guess it was healt