With Friends Like These

On this week’s pod, Ana (@anamariecox) sat down with Robin DiAngelo, author of the book White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism. To kick things off, Robin explained what white fragility is, and the impact that it has not just on white people, but white progressives in particular. Ana and Robin then talked about the need for people who recognize racism’s ills not to get complacent or arrogant, but rather be actively anti-racist, and continue educating themselves. They then switched gears, and explored why white women often fail to be allies for people of color before probing the ways de facto segregation and tokenizing minorities are so deeply problematic. Ana and Robin also put forth a series of suggestions for what well-meaning white people should do when they put their foot in their mouths and say something racist.  You can find Robin’s book here: https://www.amazon.com/White-Fragility-People-About-Racism/dp/0807047414 Robin referenced an article she wrote, which you can f

Whitney Phillips (@wphillips49) joined Ana (@anamariecox) to talk about her recent work, The Oxygen of Amplification, which chronicles the battle journalists face to report on extremism without amplifying it. Early in their conversation, Ana and Whitney dove into the central paradox of that battle: that it’s almost impossible to report on extremism without normalizing and spreading it. Another part of that paradox is that for an uninitiated journalist, it is all too easy to get duped into spreading misinformation. They also explored one of the central problems of this reporting and reporting in general: newsrooms are overwhelmingly white, male, Christian, cis, and able-bodied. Because those people are the ones least at risk from white supremacists, they’re (*shocker*) who white supremacists will talk to, and the most likely to downplay threats from those same white supremacists. Lastly, after touching on Unite The Right 2.0, Ana played assignment editor and suggested different directions to take a Nazi Next D

This week, the one and only Rick Wilson (@TheRickWilson) stopped by to talk with Ana (@anamariecox) about his new book, Everything Trump Touches Dies. Ana kicked things off by asking Rick about things he regrets from his past as a political consultant. That led to a conversation about the reaction he’s received from past colleagues and clients to the book, and why he decided to move from working in the political shadows to the light. After Ana called Rick out for the way he uses mental illness and drug addiction in the book to mock Trump supporters, they discussed the people that have disappointed Rick in the Trump era. At the top of the list: Rudy Giuliani. Afterwards, friend of the pod Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith) joined Ana to answer a listener question from Alex, a Spanish teacher at a conservative, largely homogenous school who wants to reach her students and help them learn that discrimination isn’t ok. You can find Rick’s book here. Get in touch with us on Twitter @crooked_friends or email us at withfr

Arjun Singh Sethi (@arjunsethi81), author of American Hate: Survivors Speak Out, joined Ana (@anamariecox) on this week’s pod. Over the course of their conversation, Arjun explained why he wrote the book: to center the perspectives of hate survivors, who live with the everyday hate not just of Trump’s America, but that -- shocker -- has always been present in American life. He and Ana talked about the general erasure of hate survivors in no less a setting that prosecution of hate crimes, and why hate crime legislation, restorative justice, and listening to survivors is so important in the first place. Their conversation also touched on the role social media does, and should, play in tackling hate. Lastly, they talked about how Arjun’s two German Shepherds help him continue to do this work, and the most important thing he learned through this project. You can find Arjun’s book here. A clip from Taylor Dumpson’s TED Talk is included in the show’s intro. If you’re interested in the full version, you can find

This week, Ana (@anamariecox) talked with Sarah Jones (@onesarahjones), a staff writer for The New Republic who covers social inequality and religion. Their conversation began with Sarah’s religious upbringing, and her journey from Christian fundamentalist to secular activist. Ana asked about what influence -- if any -- her parents’ teaching still has on her, as well as what the dearth of religious news outlets means for coverage of religion moving forward. Finally, at the end of the show, Sarah explained what she wishes people understood about white evangelicals. At the end of the show, Ana answered a listener question about reckoning with depression as a person of privilege. Sarah mentioned this New York Times piece. Get in touch with us on Twitter at @crooked_friends, or email the show at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com. Thank you to our sponsors! Visit stitchfix.com/friends and get 25% off when you keep all five items in your box. Head to squarespace.com/friends and use the offer code FRIENDS when you

This week, Ana (@anamariecox) talked with Teresa P Mateus (@teresapmateus), trauma specialist, professor, and founder of The Mystic Soul Project. They began their conversation talking about Teresa’s journey to become a trauma specialist, and explored what her work looks like in practice. Ana also asked her to explain how well meaning white people can fit into the people of color centered approach Teresa espoused. They then closed out the show talking about how this moment is similar and different to what came before, and why we can be hopeful things will get better. Get in touch with us on Twitter at @crooked_friends or email us at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com. Thank you to our sponsors! Go to thirdlove.com/friends to find your perfect fitting bra and get 15% off your first order. Check out Secret Clinical Strength Antiperspirant. Go to stamps.com, click on the radio microphone at the top of the page and enter FRIENDS for up to $55 in postage, a four-week trial and a free digital scale. Get free shippin

This week, Ana (@anamariecox) sat down for her regular check in with WFLT’s favorite Never Trumper Rick Wilson (@TheRickWilson). They talked about what Rick expects from President Trump’s upcoming summit with Vladimir Putin, and why the international order upheld by NATO is so important. Rick then offered his verdict on Brett Kavanaugh, Trump’s Supreme Court nominee, and what could push him to work for a Democratic Presidential candidate in 2020. Rick’s book, Everything Trump Touches Dies, comes out next month! You can find it here. Get in touch with us on Twitter at @crooked_friends or email us at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com. Thank you to our sponsors! Go to sunbasket.com/friends and get $35 off your first order. Check out Chameleon Cold Brew, purveyors of delicious, organic cold-brew iced coffee. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Ana (@anamariecox) sat down with Amy Chozick (@amychozick), New York Times writer at large and the author of the new book Chasing Hillary. Over the course of a wide-ranging conversation, they dove into some of the threads within Amy’s book that the national political press has overlooked. In addition to examining the Hillary that Amy felt voters often didn’t see, they discussed the lessons learned by Amy and the press corps writ large from the 2016 election, and how that press corps can win people’s trust back. You can find Amy’s book here. Get in touch with us on Twitter at @crooked_friends or email us at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com. Thank you to our sponsors! Give Oatly, a milk alternative made from oats, a shot at oatly.com. Get your first refill pack free with a Quip electric toothbrush at getquip.com/friends. Visit framebridge.com and enter the code FRIENDS for 15% off your first order. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Ana (@anamariecox) welcomed Lilliana Mason (@LilyMasonPhD), an assistant professor of Government and Politics at the University of Maryland and the author of Uncivil Agreement: How Politics Became Our Identity, to the show. They talked about Lilliana’s research into the power of partisan identity, and how it affects people’s daily behavior as well as the difference in manifestation between Democrats and Republicans. After probing the issue itself, they dove into the problems that it poses, as well as potential solutions. You can find Lilliana’s book here. Get in touch with us on Twitter at @crooked_friends, or email us at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com. Thank you to our sponsors! Try a 7-day free trial at texture.com/friends. Go to stamps.com, click the radio microphone at the top and enter FRIENDS for up to $55 in free postage, a digital scale and a 4-week trial. Get free shipping on your first order when you go to everlane.com/friends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm

This week, Ana (@anamariecox) sat down with The Atlantic’s Adam Serwer (@AdamSerwer) to talk about the Trump Administration’s inhumane policy of separating children from their parents detained at America’s southern border. Adam wrote a story in The Atlantic about how this policy is the realization of Trumpism, and laid out the argument he makes in the piece: that this policy is the natural byproduct of Trump’s political appeal, and builds off an American tradition of doing horrible things to black and brown children. He and Ana proceeded to examine the central importance of cruelty to this policy, and to much of what else Trump does. Ana covered Trump’s rally in Duluth on Wednesday for Rolling Stone, and shared some of her reflections on it at the end of the show. You can find Ana’s story from Duluth in full here. Ana referenced another piece of Adam’s in The Atlantic, “The Nationalist’s Delusion,” which you can find here. Adam cited this Atlantic piece from his colleague, and friend of the pod, Vann New

This week, Ana (@anamariecox) sat down with Charlotte Clymer (@cmclymer), the Press Secretary for Rapid Response at the Human Rights Campaign. They started their conversation by talking about the Trump Administration’s decision to ban transgender people from serving in the military, which Charlotte, as a transgender woman and a veteran, is uniquely able to analyze. Charlotte then shared the story of her own transition, and talked about what it means to see transgender people actually be represented. She and Ana then talked about one of the most important aspects to being an ally with a platform: lifting up other voices. Charlotte talked about one of her favorite activists, Ruby Corado, a transgender woman who is the founder and executive director of Casa Ruby (@CasaRubyDC), a bilingual, multicultural community and resource center for LGBTQ+ people and immigrants in Washington, DC. Finally, to close out the show, Ana and Charlotte answered a listener question from a white, cis, heterosexual woman who wants h

This week, Rick Wilson (@TheRickWilson) stopped by for his monthly check-in with Ana (@anamariecox). They began their conversation by talking about how to cope with the constant distraction posed by Donald Trump’s Twitter account and stay focused on the real issues. Afterwards, they dove into Rick’s own political evolution, and the issues he’s willing to compromise on to gain allies against Trump leading into the midterms. Ana also asked Rick for an insight into what Republican lawmakers and staffers on Capitol Hill are thinking as they head towards November. Get in touch with us on Twitter at @crooked_friends or at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com Thank you to our sponsors! Get your body moving in your workspace at fully.com/friends. Start your 7-day free trial at texture.com/friends. Go to stamps.com, click on the radio microphone at the top and enter FRIENDS for up to $55 in free postage, a digital scale, and a 4-week trial. Receive free shipping on your first order when you visit everlane.com/friends.

This week, comedian and host of CNN’s United Shades of America W. Kamau Bell (@wkamaubell) joined Ana (@anamariecox) to talk about the racial bias training Starbucks workers across the country had this past week. They spoke about the hypocrisy in trying to take on racism while relying on euphemisms like “racial profiling” and “color brave” without being able to say the word “racist,” as well as how many anti-racism trainings only encompass racism against black people, and leave out other people of color. They also discussed the ways racism actively harms people of color in their daily lives, and Kamau shared one of the ways he physically alters himself when entering white spaces: crouching, so his height appears less intimidating. Get in touch with us at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com or on Twitter at @crooked_friends. Thank you to our sponsors! Go to sunbasket.com/friends to get $35 off your first order. Get $20 off your purchase at theblacktux.com/friends. Visit getquip.com/friends for your first refill

This week, Diana Butler Bass (@DianaButlerBass), historian and author of the new book Grateful: The Transformative Power of Giving Grace, joined Ana (@anamariecox). Diana wrote the book during the first 100 days of the Trump Administration, and she talked about how the act of practicing gratitude helped her to deal with the myriad ways the Administration was making the country worse. She also talked about how that conception of gratitude is different than the transactional practice many -- including the President, who constantly asks for thanks after doing anything -- believe it is. She and Ana dove into how thinking of gratitude and grace as something that is simply done out of thanks, and makes life better for you and those around you, helps people deal with whatever problems they may face in their daily lives. You can find Diana’s book here: http://dianabutlerbass.com/books/grateful-the-transformative-power-of-giving-thanks/ Get in touch with us on Twitter at @crooked_friends, or email us at withfriends

Rewire.News’ Senior Legal Analyst Imani Gandy (@AngryBlackLady) joined Ana (@anamariecox) this week for a wide-ranging conversation. They began by exploring the differences between the reproductive rights and reproductive justice movements before discussing what it’s like to receive abuse on Twitter. After talking about how people of privilege can use it for good, the conversation got more serious when Imani proposed that the real reason so much time and energy is focused on the Trump/Russia scandal is that it’s easier and less scary to think about than the tangible ways the Administration is making life worse for people. After that, Pod Save America co-host Jon Favreau (@jonfavs) sat down with Ana to answer a listener question about intraleft fighting. They discussed some of the problems with talking about political differences (be they about policy or political tribalism) is to have real-life conversations about what people want, and how we can get there. Get in touch with us on Twitter at @crooked_friend

New York Times op-ed columnist Ross Douthat (@DouthatNYT) joined Ana this week to continue the discussion they started in columns last week. Ross wrote an op-ed in the Times about the prospect of sex robots as the answer for people who can’t fulfill their sexual desires, to which Ana responded with a lengthy critique. To take that debate off the computer screen, they conducted a wide-ranging conversation that encompassed Ross’ argument, Ana’s problems with it, and what it’s like writing in the age of Trump. After the conversation with Ross, the New Yorker’s Doreen St. Felix (@dstfelix) joined Ana to talk about Childish Gambino’s music video for “This is America.” Doreen analyzed the new video, and they tried to parse through who it was actually made for as well as what makes Glover so compelling. You can find Ross’ sex robot piece here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/opinion/incels-sex-robots-redistribution.html Here’s Ana’s response to Ross’ piece: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/robot-

This week, WFLT’s favorite Never Trumper joined the show for his first check in since February. Over the course of a wide-ranging conversation, he and Ana dove into the way that attitudes regarding the FBI and the rule of law have undergone a remarkable transformation in the age of Trump. They also talked about how Democrats should run on accountability rather than impeachment in 2018, North Korea, and *that* Rudy Giuliani interview. After that, Ira Madison III, host of Crooked Media’s Keep It!, joined the show to answer a listener question about how to -- or how not to -- have a conversation with a racist who doesn’t want to admit it. Get in touch with us at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com or on Twitter at @crooked_friends. Check out our sponsors! Start your free month of unlimited access to more than 10,000 fascinating lectures at thegreatcoursesplus.com/friends. Get your first refill pack free at getquip.com/friends. Receive $20 off your purchase at theblacktux.com/friends. Try a free trial at squaresp

This week, Alex Wagner, co-host of Showtime’s The Circus, contributing editor at The Atlantic, a CBS News contributor and the author of the new book Futureface: A family mystery, an Epic Quest, and the Secret to Belonging, sat down with Ana. They discussed her family history and how the writing process facilitated her own search for belonging. They also addressed the white privilege inherent in DNA testing, and the what it means for Alex to replace Mark Halperin on The Circus during this unique political moment. Get in touch with us on Twitter at @crooked_friends or at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com. Check out our sponsors! Get a free sample box at kindsnacks.com/friends. You can try a 7-day free trial at texture.com/friends. For up to $55 in free postage, a four-week trial and a digital scale, visit stamps.com, click on the radio microphone at the top and enter FRIENDS. Go to thirdlove.com/friends for 15% off your first purchase! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Humanist chaplain and community activist Chris Stedman joined Ana to discuss the unique relationship between movement atheism and the Alt-Right. Chris wrote a piece on the trend from prominent atheists like Bill Maher, Sam Harris, and Richard Dawkins to promote some liberal social policies while putting forth critiques of social justice policies that amount to an “alt-light.” Ana and Chris delve deep into the atheist movement, investigating why and how atheists have found common ground with Christian white nationalism in the broader Trump coalition. Historian Diana Butler Bass joins Chris and Ana to answer a listener question about finding forgiveness for Christians in the age of the Trump, as well as for a discussion about the many roads that compassion and forgiveness can lead down. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3k7jx8/too-many-atheists-are-veering-dangerously-toward-the-alt-right Get in touch with us at withfriendslikepod@gmail.com, and @crooked_friends on Twitter. Check out our sponsor

This week, writer, journalist, and disability rights activist Keah Brown joins Ana for a difficult conversation about disability, ableism, and body positivity. Their wide-ranging conversation begins with Keah detailing how she’s worked to find self love and body positivity and a discussion on the lack of representation disabled people face in movies and popular culture writ large. They then turn to Keah’s desire not to be pigeonholed as a writer, and the pro’s and con’s of using Twitter to connect with other people. The conversation ends on an important note, when Ana apologizes for using ableist language, and the importance of looking at disability as something that is not static, but that comes in a variety of forms, as well as the need for privileged people to leave their comfort zones and be willing to make mistakes to expand their own horizons. Then, Crooked Contributor Erin Ryan stops by to answer a listener question about navigating romantic relationships across a political divide. Ana and Erin come t